The Evolving Angler
The Evolving Angler
Boundless Pursuit w/ David Graham
Can you picture yourself in the heart of nature, rod in hand, waiting for that exciting pull? This is where our guest, David Graham, an accomplished fisherman, podcaster and outdoor enthusiast, finds solace. His passion for fishing and love for the outdoors have led him on incredible journeys, reeling in both traditional species like bass and cats, as well as ancient fish like sturgeon and bowfin.
David hosts the podcast, "Boundless Pursuit" and has written many articles where he aims to educate the fishing community about often misunderstood "trash" or "rough" fish... But there's more to this episode than just fishing. It's about an unwavering passion, the pursuit of truth, and a commitment to enlighten and inform. Our conversation with David, filled with intriguing stories and enlightening insights, paints a vivid picture of his love for fishing, his journey into article writing, and his work in advocating for misunderstood fish species. So, whether you’re an angler looking for a kindred spirit or simply someone who appreciates the beauty of the great outdoors, this episode promises a treat for all. Tune in for a captivating ride through fishing tales, species diversity, and the joy of connecting with the natural world.
"Love your neighbor and Go catch some fish"
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Speaker 1:Hey guys, welcome back to the Evolving Angle podcast. Me and Steve Zupra are sitting down with a gentleman that I'm excited to have on the show. Followed you for a little bit, steve told me about you Actually is how I initially learned about you and I'm excited to talk fishing with this guy here. He's pretty accomplished, david Graham excited to have you on the show, my friend.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to be here. Talk about my favorite topic. Talk about myself. You know what I mean. I'm just kidding folks.
Speaker 1:No, shame man.
Speaker 2:Break the ice a little bit.
Speaker 1:No shame, you're a beautiful man, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:Anyway.
Speaker 1:I think my beard's better, no offense.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:I'm missing a few spots. Oh, steve, how you doing, man, how you doing, I'm doing pretty good. How's it been going? Doing good, doing good. Excited Steve's on the beach. Oh yeah, it looks like it. I'm jealous.
Speaker 3:Hey, you should recognize this beach, david, that's a very stable weather there, very consistent weather. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The time is standing still yeah.
Speaker 3:The consistent weather arrived after I had left.
Speaker 1:So a funny story. I like your background, steve. I was being funny, was you with the podcast? Yet, steve, when I put the picture of me in a loincloth behind me, no, I wish I was.
Speaker 1:Me and my buddies went camping a few years back and we decided to do this primitive camping thing. So I was like we're going to be primitive camping, I'm going all out. I packed like a little loincloth just to be funny no shame in my game and we hiked into Cranberry wilderness, west Virginia about. I think we went 11, 12 miles into it and decided to stay four days. No cell phone service, nothing. They get up next morning here I'm walking around, nothing but a loincloth around the front and they didn't like the trip.
Speaker 2:You get flagged for explicit content. That will attract the wrong audience. A little bit, a little bit, but they didn't have a good weekend.
Speaker 1:I did. I thought it was funny. But, dave man, talk a little bit about you here. I know you live in Southwest Florida. You lived with fish in several states. You know you got a soft spot for what many call rough fish or maybe trash fish. So you kind of like me and Steve man, I think a lot of these fish are just misunderstood. Yeah, and everybody's got their opinion on them. But I really enjoy that part of you and your love for those fish.
Speaker 1:I know you've written a bunch of articles for Outdoor Life Magazine. You've podcasted with Field Stream. You've got a ton of great articles, I believe, on your website as well, don't you? Wwwboundless-pursuitcom? Is that right? Yep, that's it. That's the spot. Nice, I know you started podcast this year. It's been doing awesome. I love the episodes on that. And guys, right now, stop go subscribe, follow us podcast Boundless Pursuit. It's an excellent podcast. It has a lot of great information. If you enjoy fishing at all, especially like I don't know, you've got Snakehead and all kinds of things on there, so yeah, I'm trying to stay very diverse.
Speaker 2:No rhyme or reason.
Speaker 1:So that's good, that's good. Oh, man, thanks so much for coming on the show. I've talked to you and learned about you and how you've got to where you are now and kind of what fueled your passion for all this. Man, I don't have an outline, not much of one, anyway, I got a few things. But, man, I just want to chat with you and let's sit the ground running. Man, what got you into fishing? How old was you?
Speaker 2:Gosh. So it's kind of funny, I try to stay very matter of fact on most topics that I write about, that I get involved in, that I talk about, but like the one topic I cannot be matter of fact about is that one. You'd think it'd be like the easiest answer because it's probably the number one thing people ask me is like when did you get into fishing? Why did you get into fishing? There's no real answer. There's like a thousand different reasons, I guess. But I would say that I was interested in the outdoors for as long as I can remember. I think I do believe the interest in the outdoors is a genetic thing. I think it's an inherent thing. I think that that interest in wildlife and animals speaks a little louder to certain people's conscience than others. And I go on this tangent a lot with other people when I talk about people who are just gravitate towards the outdoors.
Speaker 2:There's just different characteristics that people have. I'm not the guy that if you set a bunch of Legos in front of them and said, build a car, you could do it. But there's kids that are like that. You've probably seen them. You may, even if either of y'all have kids, you may have one of those kids, the ones that just naturally are able to take things apart, put them back together, like to do puzzles. Maybe they're destined to become engineers. The ones that I don't know, that naturally are combative and like to fight people. Maybe one day they'll be in prison, maybe they'll be soldiers, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But, some kids. I was that kid where it didn't matter how chaotic the room was. There could be fires and riots and everything. I was that quiet kid off in the corner that was like laying on his belly belly, crawling after like a bug. It's just how I was. It's just how I'm wired. I do not know why, I have no idea why. I don't feel like anybody trained me that way. It's just the way that I was.
Speaker 2:So, first and foremost I was just wildly interested in animals Still am but fishing wise it probably started picking up more with my brothers. My dad took us fishing but he was very much. You know he's working, he's preoccupied with with providing for us. But I have two older brothers. They got into fishing before I did. I think every young man probably gets crosses that divide at some point.
Speaker 2:Some people jump off the bus earlier than others. But my brothers went to a period interested in fishing and for me I knew they were going fishing near a creek. I knew they were fishing going fishing near a pond. They're going down some railroad tracks. So for me it was just like hey, let me jump on, you know the pegs of your bike, let me, let me come along. A lot of times. They forced me to come along, they made me come along whether I wanted to or not. It's either that or get beat up. So I started going with them first, just as an excuse to be at the water's edge. You know they'd be fishing, I'd be looking for a frog or something.
Speaker 2:And then somewhere along the line, I don't know man, and it's like I picked the rod up and I started to take interest in it. You know it started with like what most people do I guess I think I'm probably speaking for a lot of people where it was like bass and bluegill golf course ponds. That was. That was my starting line and I thought that that was pretty cool. But I don't know for me if it was quite enough, needed a little bit more. And so I spent a lot of time with my brothers doing that course my older brother's three years older than me, my oldest brother's three years older than him. So there's degrees of separation there and you know, gradually along the way, they you know it wasn't cool to hang out with your little brother. They're trying to get girls, they're trying to do what they do, and I was left alone. You know what I mean. It was like I kind of jumped off the proverbial bike but I still wanted to fish. The other side of that.
Speaker 2:And again now this I don't know if it's just my nature how I am, or if it's the product of the way that I was brought up, but we moved a lot when I was a kid, like my dad's career. Just, we're constantly moving different states, different cities. So I never had time to establish like core groups of friends, so I never got involved in like social, the social game, social settings, going out with friends. I was very much to myself and I loved it. I don't know, never a lonely person. I cannot be lonely, it just doesn't happen to me. I love solid solitude. So we moved.
Speaker 2:I think it was when we were in Oklahoma that I first started fishing golf course ponds. I loved catching snakes and turtles and reptiles. Then we moved to Arkansas and that's where I was really by myself, couldn't drive yet none of that stuff. So I still wanted to go to local creeks and whatnot. And by this age let's say I'm probably, you know, I probably started fishing I'd say, to answer your question around age nine, but I wouldn't say I was a fisherman, it was just something that I did. Then, by the time we moved to Arkansas, I was around 12, 13, and that's when I was going off on my own and while I was interested in going and catching critters, it was like I was sort of transitioning organically into more fishing. You know, I dropped the fishing rod if I saw a snake, but I went there to fish.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? You sound just like Steve yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't love y'all stuff, but it was at this spillway in Arkansas. It was a swamp. This is where things begin to get a lot more clear for me and defined, and where my trajectory is in. Angler started as fishing in this swamp you know tailwaters below this old dam in southwest Arkansas and I was casting. I remember I'd get my mom to drop me off at this place or my brother, whoever was willing to drive me and drop me off. You know, back in those days that was normal for parents to just drop your ass off and leave you gone, no telling what could happen to me out there, this backwards place. But I hooked into a bowfin and that was kind of like my first time encountering something other than a bass or a bluegill, like something that looked different. It broke the mold of what you think a fish is. There's categories of fish that kids know yes, bluegill, catfish and then there's those others and me just naturally already being interested in other stuff reptiles, amphibians. It was like this perfect mix between, like you know, those things that stoke the imagination, that that reptiles do and that fish do and like combine the two and I was like, oh my god, and so Backtrack a second, it wasn't. When I hooked one, I saw a dead one. That's what it was. It's coming back to me. I saw a dead one on the bank, beat up, smashed up, stomped on. You could probably imagine what had happened to it. This existed in a, in a region where you know I don't know it was you don't release those fish at this place. It was like the mortal sin. But I knew what it was. I knew enough about fish and wildlife.
Speaker 2:My older brother, matt, had a Poster in his room that was like the fishes of South Carolina, and I always remember being fixated on the bowfin. You know, you got your striper, you got Pickerel, you got large mouth bass, small mouth bass and there was bowfin. I'm like God, that thing is crazy looking. So when I saw this thing dead, I'm like, oh my god, those things are in here and I think I hooked one that day and I I lost it. I like lost it at the bank. And so it was like the sun was going down, my mom, or whoever, pulled up. It was time to go and I was. You know, I was left with enough of like man. That thing was at my fingertips, like I was almost there, and so like I don't know, dude, if, like something like got planted in my head that never went away, but like, from that day forward it was all about like bowfin was like what started it for me. I was like the wildest freak of nature about those things you could ever imagine.
Speaker 2:Got to a point where I got my learner's permit. I was driving at like age 13. She just had to be backed by sundown and that's the only place I ever went, never made friends, nothing. I just go out there. I didn't adapt at all. Is it like an angler? Like I had this like ziploc bag full of neon red zoom trickworms and because that's the first thing one of them bit, that's all I'd throw at them. I Wouldn't have all passed that, I wouldn't have evolving angler. So I was just like I'll just stick with this because that's what they bit.
Speaker 2:And then I'm, you know, eventually I caught one, and I don't know if it was just a perfect storm, but I remember the people on the banks. They'd be like you know, folks sitting out there with the cane poles and their five gallon buckets you know that deep South type of Fishing and boy would they get pissed when I threw them back. They called them grinnell. Like you know it get angry at me for throwing these damn grinnell back. I Don't know. It's like I have this innate sense of right and wrong. It led me into a career in law enforcement. It's just always been the way that I am. Like I'm very much like if I don't believe, if I, you know, feel like something's wrong, I'm gonna speak up about it, I'm gonna fight against it. So I like I'm this 13 year old kid. I felt like I knew everything about both and like I'm gonna be the bofin champion. I didn't know anything about these fish but I remember there was this both in anglers group comm at the time that was like there was Gar, anglers sporting society and both in anglers group and they were like sister sites and good God, I know the webmasters must have like thought I was the most annoying little brat kid because like I would send them so many photos. I was always trying to post on the forums, like I wanted to be like the bofin guy but um, so that kind of really was it for me. It was like I felt like it gave me a cause I was fishing, but I also felt like it was like I need to champion this fish I need to champion, you know. Then I kind of, as time progressed, I felt like, you know, you recognize that there's these other fish that that Offer so much from a sporting standpoint that needs somebody to speak up for them. So we ended up moving to South Carolina around ninth grade and We've moved to late Moultrie on the Santy Cooper which has got gigantic bofin.
Speaker 2:But it was like you know, I'm evolving at this point, learning about salt water, getting into that game, exploring other species longnose, gar, bofin, carp, all those and sport fish. And I want to make it clear I don't deprive myself of catches. I catch all of all fish. There's like no rhyme or reason. I just meander about wanting to measure my skills against as much as I can. But, you know, just kind of snowballed from there. But it's like you know, every time you turn over that rock and realize that there's something else unique underneath it, it for me I'd get excited about it, but immediately be like what else is there? Like this is so awesome, like what else is there that that people are Dogging on and trashing on? Yeah, to the point that like if somebody said such and such fish is not worth your time I'm like, ooh, I get online like research, like where do those live, cuz I've heard this before Then anyway, so I ended up going to college in Charleston, at the Citadel, which is a military school, and then every weekend, you know, I was sneaking out of sneaking off campus.
Speaker 2:We weren't allowed off campus. You had like earn leave through like you know fit. You had to be like In regs for your fitness, your academics, your room standards, it's all merit-based unless you snuck off campus. I sneak off and go fishing all the time but, um, you know, it got to a point where I don't know, dude, like for me, like the the field was so wide open, with fish never been the type to like limit it to Certainly I wouldn't say there's this one fish, that's the pinnacle and when I get there I'll stop. Yeah, I feel like some people do that, but you know, I start looking at things like an alligator, gar and she's like I don't know man, I just I went way down the rabbit hole of dreaming like what else is out there. So that was number one target for me and I guess I'll pause when I get to my graduation. I'll let you oh, you're here in the conversation a little bit.
Speaker 2:When I graduated from the Citadel, I had a little bit of downtime before I started a career in law enforcement to do a trip and I was like I want to go for the alligator gar, like that, that's gonna be, that's the one for me. My oldest brother, travis Shout out to him he's kind of been like, he was always like. You know, I owe a lot to my fishing, to my brothers, like at the very least they they Took me with them and that's all they needed to do. But Both of them have remained real interested and vested in my fishing endeavor since then. But so we did a trip in 2010 when I graduated for alligator gar and Texas for like a week I Made busted our ass, didn't know what we were doing, like we were out there just grinding, doing it the hardest way possible In retrospect, very stupid, like planning, but we ended up catching fish. We ended up catching fish, big ones, and I don't know man. It was like the rest has just been this path to like see what else is out there. There's like unending journey.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know, I will say this like, as far as, like, my roots is an angler. Like a lot of people ask why I'm always going to other places and they're like, why aren't you fishing like you know your backyard? I'm, my eyes are always set on the next place and I think that is because I moved all my life. I don't have home like home waters. People get very attached to their home waters. I don't have that. I just don't have it. We just moved all the time.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I have home waters, but I do feel very much like indebted or Married to both. In is like that's like my home waters. It's like the species that will always bring me back like Any downtime I have. I like, if nothing else is planned, I will 100% like Attack that fish multiple times during the course of the year because it's like it's humbling every single time. It resets me, it like brings me back to my origins as an angler and it's like a good reset for me. So that's one that, like I will tell people right now I I could travel on this end of the earth to the other For the greatest fish on planet earth. Nothing will ever take that fish to spot and in my heart and people like look at me like I'm crazy, a mud fish, what the hell? Yeah, I want to tell you man.
Speaker 1:But yeah, well, ma'am so yeah, I have to say Okay. So I told me this Long time ago it's kind of funny, when I got into fishing is buddy of mine who Cock fished a lot, he, he told me that there's three kinds of anglers and he's like you know there's there's the kind that just go out and catch fish. Then there's the kind to catch fish and try to understand why and how and how the ecosystem works and everything which you know, kind of like I put you in that category. You know, you, you had a desire, you know, and you had an experience that just kept kept you kind of asking questions and trying to figure out more about these fish. And he said then you got the third, which is pay Lakers. I thought that was funny, yeah, so I dabbled in. I've even dabbled in that Me too.
Speaker 2:Weird world right there, that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, that's a strange world right there. I had a buddy show me you know, david, go ahead Steve go ahead man, I was gonna say, I just had a buddy. I had a buddy when I got into it years ago. I don't fish about to pay likes but I went with some friends you know for for conversation and hang out and he showed me the pay like Swarp they call it and that's where you run back like 12 feet Then set the hook. I don't know, I've seen it. They got like look this way.
Speaker 2:I've seen it, I wrote an article about it and this old e magazine in like 2012.
Speaker 1:Really so.
Speaker 2:I spent some time at this pay late. The guy that owned it's a great guy, but boy was out of interesting culture people. I actually feel guilty, like in retrospect, about about sort of promoting it, because then you start to realize like the damage that it can cause by, yeah, harvesting. I mean, I guess carp is one thing I love carp, but it's like, but the ones that do like the catfish and the native fish and pulling buffalo out of the rivers and putting them in those like hell holes that they're Captive in is like maybe there's some ethics. Sorry, I didn't mean to get off right about that, but how you good.
Speaker 1:Dude um, what would you talk? Talk about bofin. I'm so I'm new to the bofin game. You know I'm 37 so I'm kind of late in this game that that you know you adore so much. And a big thanks to Steve. Steve kind of steered me that direction, not kind of he steered me that direction. It's like, dude, you got to catch bofin. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:So I've been been a few times now man and then it's been an absolute blast, definitely Absolutely blown away by how hard they fight. I said in my recent YouTube video, it's like smallmouth on cocaine, like they absolutely fight like crazy, but not just for that, you know. I do love them for that aspect. But I think they're beautiful fish. They're, they're odd, you know that, and that they can survive in the craziest of habitats with low oxygen, and it just blows my mind that where you can find some of these fish, like especially here. But what would you go, say Steve? You know David.
Speaker 3:I was sitting there listening to David's story and I was thinking to myself like hey, didn't lie to me about who my did. Was you know what I mean? Because that's that's that's real similar to my story. Yeah, you know I've always been out catching critters and this, and that I still do that. I mean, you know you, you'll see me all the time still out looking for snakes and reptiles and amphibians and this and that. But I've always also been drawn to the oddball species.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so growing up, you know we'd we'd go to. Well, nick, you know this place, grayson Lake, and that was the closest lake to where I was growing up. We'd go out and everybody I go fishing with there, always targeting like bass and crappie and catfish, you know. So the first time that I got out and I started catching some of these rough fish, that was my turning point too. So there's just so much to learn about them. I mean, every angler can tell you, you know about the when the bass are spawning and this and that. But when you, when you start getting these ancient fish species like the sturgeon, the gars, the bofin man, their world is so much different. The spawning habits are so much different. Yeah, bofin are absolutely one of my favorite fish in the world. You know they've been around since the Jurassic time. They survived since the dinosaurs. They hardly changed at all. And you know I'm real big in the fossils and all that too. I actually have a tank set up with both fin in it. I saw that.
Speaker 1:I'm so jealous of that. Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 3:I mean there's just so, so much more out there. I wish more fishermen would broaden their horizons a little bit. God, I do.
Speaker 2:I too.
Speaker 3:There's absolutely nothing wrong with, like, if you're a bass fisherman and you love catching bass, go do it. Absolutely go knock your you know, knock your socks off doing it, and if that's what you love to do. But you know, kind of like what David was saying if you accidentally catch a bofin, don't kill the bofin just because it's different.
Speaker 1:They're not invasive correct, it's a snakehead that's invasive, I think.
Speaker 2:Right it's the least invasive fish on the planet. Yeah, not the planet, but the country. No, my thing with that is like and that line of thinking I don't care if somebody doesn't want to catch it, but I like the reason why it becomes important. If you say you don't want to catch it because they're foul and they're nasty and they're destructive, I have a problem with that. If you have a reason for saying I don't want to catch it because they don't fight hard, you're a liar. If you have a reason for you know. If somebody just says I simply like this fish more, that's fine. But it's like you know.
Speaker 2:The unfortunate thing is when people's reason for not doing it is incorrect and it's like because of what was passed down to them through their grandpappy or whatever. That's like man. This is not right. So it's like Steve, I appreciate what you do because I think we're similar in that you could very, we could very easily just enjoy this fish all to ourselves. What a great thing to have and nobody else going after. But to then turn and be like an ambassador for a fish where you might catch some hate from people I don't know, it speaks to good character. I think I will say I mean, I caught my first one in 2003. Oh, I should remember that 2002. And since then I've seen a massive change in their perception for the better, which is at least good to see. You see people out there doing. You see young kids YouTubeing, catching them, and man, I just I remember a time where it was like, oh man, you would catch so much hate for trying to promote them. So it's not, it's it's moving in the right direction at least.
Speaker 2:So thank goodness for that, Actually.
Speaker 3:I think me and you, david, got in contact through some of these groups for these oddball fish I was going to ask how you guys know each other. Well, we're both really big into the social media groups and we post a lot, and so, you know, it seemed like I'd go catch both in and then two days later David would post one that was like swallow mine up, oh no, I'd post a 35 inch lake sturgeon and he'd post this big seven foot white sturgeon. I was like I was not intentional.
Speaker 3:I was like I've got to find out what this guy likes. He's got some stories. I need some advice from him. Is this the guy you're talking about?
Speaker 1:Is this the guy you talked about beating up? You're just going to find out where he lived and beat up because of coffee.
Speaker 3:No, but you know, here was this other guy that he's in different part of the country and you know he gets to access a different group of fish and we do here in Kentucky. Some of them are the same, but you know. But here's somebody else like minded that's going out and chasing these oddball species and you know, I think I sent him a message first and was like hey, how's it going? And we kind of struck up a little bit of conversation and then I found out, you know he used to live in South Carolina.
Speaker 3:So I'm driving down to South Carolina and what's the first thing I do is I whip out my phone and I call and I'm like David. You know we had to get on these fish and you know he wasn't shy about it at all. He gave me all kinds of advice and I'm I guarantee the places that he sent me to would have been really productive. Just so happening on the South Carolina, it stormed the entire trip I was at.
Speaker 3:And you know I had the girlfriend and the kids with me. And so I get to this bay that David recommends and I'm out there and I'm waiting for the tide to be right, and then I start getting all these alerts in the phone. It's like severe weather there are coastal flooding, strong winds, blah, blah, blah. It's lightning and everything. And I'm like, oh man, it happened nonstop like that for a week. But at one of the places that he told me to go, my son actually caught his first shark and that was a really thrilling moment for me. I think I was more excited for him than he was. You know he's probably like why is dad yelling? You know I was like, yeah, steve got one, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the benefit of living all over the place. Like I've fished all these different places. People are like you travel a lot. No, I ain't no doing no travel. That's where I lived and so now I have no shame, Like it's not spot burning. I'll tell you exactly where I used to fish, because it's like I don't fish there anymore. I'll send you right to the spots that I used to fish all the time. But yeah, man, I try, like when people reach out to me, I mean if I can tell that they're genuine and authentic, which I think it's easy to tell. I always try to be an open book and like give as much information as I can, and if it works it makes me feel good. If it doesn't work, sometimes I feel like crap. But yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:So I want to talk about some of the articles you've written and kind of how you got to a place where you were, you know, writing articles or had a desire to, I guess, educate, you know, be probably the main reason why you did that. And also, has there ever been any kind of controversial articles when you maybe got some hate mail? It seems like we've had a couple of episodes that you know you can't please everybody, yeah, but how'd you get into writing articles and the whole aspect, and obviously if there was any controversial stuff with that, I'd love to hear about it.
Speaker 2:You know, I think it started because, like I think we alluded to this a little bit earlier, like Steve, one thing you were mentioning that was like so on point is like there's an information overload on the internet. There's an information overload on the worldwide web and whatever on sport fish. You can find a hundred thousand different patterns for a large mouth bass, I mean. There's there's so much information out there that if you take time you can find the answer to any condition and in any body of water, for whatever, for certain species of fish, other species of fish. It's like this grand mystery. There's no information out there, no one's writing anything. The ground affair, like just trying to figure it out, which is part of the fun. But then part of me was like man, I've learned, like some things that I think are you know, or I would read information. I'd be like that's not a hundred percent accurate and I don't know. I just felt compelled to be like a steward of certain fish, like when, when like there are fish out there getting tossed onto the bank and stomped on for the wrong reasons, like somebody's got to fix that. I'm like this is ridiculous, especially when it's affecting your waters, like when they were doing that as spots that I wanted to go fish and it was just destructive and it's ridiculous and it's all based on lies. I just felt like I needed to get involved somehow. So I first started writing when a buddy of mine he's been a guest on my podcast, this guy, andrew Rogus, he's a bass fisherman but he had this e-magazine and he was he was starting it up. So we started on this other website where it was like you know, this is back in the forum days. You'll probably remember some of that and you know. So I remember I was a forum moderator on gosh. What was it? It was an extension of, like my fishing picturescom and I became a forum moderator for, like the other fish section. So I felt like you know, man, I'm like, I'm like the leading authority of these fish, I'm special. But I felt good, you know, I was like trying to promote it.
Speaker 2:And then I got on with this global fishercom and then me and Andrew Rogus like struck up this like you know, online connection and he wanted to start a new website, fishing headquarterscom and he was he's very talented in like web development, so what he does for a career now like he's exceptionally talented at it. So he he created these like e-magazines. Before e-magazines were popular. Today everything's an e-magazine anyway. Like like published magazines are dying. And so he reached out to me and like asked if I'd submit articles for some of these other fish, like alligator, gar and all that stuff. So I jumped at that. I'm like, oh my God, yeah, let's give anything he had to like over edit mine because they're too long. But so I got into that and like the feedback was always great, like they were always high performing articles, high performing blog posts you know, it's interesting stuff when you see a seven foot long fish with giant teeth so that garnered some traction.
Speaker 2:And then I was had a guy from Field to Stream reach out and didn't necessarily want me to write an article, but wanted to get quotes, wanted to get information and I don't know man, it just kind of snowballed and it just makes me feel good. You know what I mean. Make me feel good to be a guy that's putting information out there, especially when some of my blog posts have elicited like emails out of the blue. Like nothing makes me feel better when I get these random emails and say, hey, I'm going to say, hey, I enjoyed your article and I read your how to on how to do this and I went out there and made it happen. Like, like they put into action things that I suggest doing and find success. Man, that makes me feel good. So it's just one of those things I enjoy.
Speaker 2:I've always been probably better at writing than I am at talking and it's just like I can type like 90 words a minute, like I can type as fast as the words come to my mind. I don't know how and I don't know why, but it's just one of those things I'm and I was like therapeutic to me. You know what I mean. So I do it in part for other people, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that some of it is for my own selfish needs. It's like their journals. For me, it's like things that I can go back and read, like in. I hate to say it. Sometimes I go back and read my articles from like 2011 kind of cringe. I'm like, oh, that's wrong, like that's not actually not wrong, but it's like I've honed my skills since then.
Speaker 1:But that's like our Facebook post from like 2011. You go back and read some of those. I'm like man. I was crazy.
Speaker 2:I've done that too, and I've deleted some of them because I'm like saying, like things that can get you fired from a job nowadays and my last thing I need is, you know, somebody to reach into the archives and find me an internet spat with a bow fisherman or something Don't run for president?
Speaker 1:Yeah, somebody will find that stuff.
Speaker 2:No doubt. I guess you would also ask if anything had ever caused my hate mail. I wouldn't say that I don't think I'm necessarily like politically correct, but I also don't take extreme positions on anything with like fishing is so, like you know, it's one person enjoys one thing and one person doesn't, and it's just like I try to not say that, like I try to not be super matter of fact in anything that I say. I mean, if there's scientific fact and then there's opinion, I've always tried to be clear about that. So, like I know, the closest thing I've had was like writing about bow fishing. I guess in our community and like the rough fish community, that's always like the one that that's that elephant in the room, like that's the one that gets people going and I don't know, man, I don't take the extreme position with that, like I, like you know you'll talk to guys on back it needs to be banned and I don't agree with that. I don't think you should ban anything. I think things need to be regulated, like with common sense. But when people start talking about ban and stuff, my man, you, as soon as you open the gates for things to be banned, yeah, it's cool, until that starts knocking at your front door. Yeah, because they could very easily say sport fishing should be banned. It's animal cruelty, it's causing unnecessary stress on the wildlife, like. So there's that, there's that.
Speaker 2:I had a little bit of a I guess it was sort of an email about a Goliath grouper thing people do not like. When people mess with Goliath groupers around here, oh my goodness you won't talk about. People think it's like a dolphin, like they don't like to see Goliath grouper coming up anywhere near, being out of the water, being harassed. And yeah, I had a little back and forth on the internet over that. I'm very kind, I think, but I am almost positive. I was actually in Texas on a buffalo fishing for Buffalo with a buddy of mine and the FWC called me. So Florida Fish and Wildlife called me and the investigator called me about some of my photos. Now I know exactly who sent this to you. Like, I guarantee you it was this person, but but he was cool with it. I know laws were broken, but it is one of those things where I don't know. I mean, I can't say I've ever gotten hate mail per se, but I've been pushed on a little bit, but no, nothing to negative.
Speaker 3:I get a lot of negative comments, not so much on on the fishing photographs and videos we do, but on the reptiles.
Speaker 3:So you know we're down doing that project in Arkansas with alligator snapper turtles were actually moving to help save these turtles and I think that when I first posted that video, I want to say I got no less than 20 messages and emails that day of people telling me how awful I was for messing with them and I was like, oh, you don't understand. It's like if you actually paid attention to this video, you'd see that you know we're doing this for the benefit of the animal. So I get what you're saying about people down there having a certain feeling about Goliath Group, or I still get messages from people you know that are like you need to leave those snakes alone, you need to leave those turtles alone. You're stressing them out and this and that. And you know my logic behind it is If you're not showing the animals and what they are to the next generation, the next generation isn't going to care about them. Right, you know what I mean. You only care about things that, like, you've had some sort of interaction with or that you've been exposed to.
Speaker 3:I can sit here and I can list 50 different species animals that's went extinct in the last 100 years that most people have probably never even heard of and therefore they don't care about them at all. But maybe that would have been different if they had been exposed to it. So you're talking to me and Nick about Goliath grouper and by how it's like a no, no, no, a taboo down there to fish for them. And we're up in Kentucky so it's just another big fish, but for those people down there, the only reason why they care about those fish is because they had exposure to them. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So if they were more open to the idea of you showing other people and introducing other people to what this animal really is and telling that story, other people would care just as much as they do. Maybe not in that right direction, you know, in that same direction Because, like I said, I'm all the time preaching about how let's not kill snakes, let's learn about them, teach respect, not fear. I'm all about that. But you know, those topics come up and the best way to show somebody that the snake isn't going to have to get you is to show them the snake Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. Well, that's kind of a funny thing, like oddly enough. Well, I've gotten, I guess, negativity the more I'm thinking about it, not so much because of articles I've written, but probably more just like photo comments. But that comes with the tarot, that's just. That's the internet for you. The snake head one's a big one, I mean that one's almost guaranteed. Like you post the snake head and you got 20 comments.
Speaker 2:A lot of times I'll go to the comments just to like you know, look for the guy, there's always the one in there and I don't reply, I don't engage, I'm not like there was a time where I was like Mr Internet Warrior. Now I'm like I'm just not doing it. But what's crazy to me is a lot of times, whether it's my Goliath group or pictures or a snake head you know you got to kill that damn thing or the Goliath groupers, like shouldn't be harassing it. It's always some guy or some gal and like you tall, like it's the people that are nowhere near them that have the most to say. I'm like, well, a lot of the times, like the people that are like I don't know man, I get ones from like Connecticut.
Speaker 2:They got something to say about my like bullseye, snake head stuff. I'm like, dude, you have no idea. But then I'm like I don't know. I try to respond with like grace or I just don't respond at all. This is, you know, it's just one of those things. To me, a lot of that stuff is just like a time will correct the ignorance. So, you know, I feel like a duty to a point to educate, but I'll give one response and then I ain't going to go with it because some people just looking for an internet fight.
Speaker 1:So education is. Education is very important, but the person has to be willing to learn. You know, if they're sitting in a ways and I've talked to several people like the whole musky thing here, man, I'm not saying there's a lot of bass guys that understand, but then there's a lot that just think musky, every single bass. And it's really frustrating to try to have conversations with people to educate and I have had several conversations online to the point where I just quit. I'm about like you, I don't engage because you would have people that would just want to argue and argue and argue and you try to educate them that you know they mostly eat shad in lakes, you know, and in the creeks it's suckers and things like that, and they just they don't want to hear it to them it's, it's. You know. They hooked up on a bass the bass, they're real in the bass in it was acting, injured, it triggered a musky bite and then that point on, they think musky, just annihilate all the bass.
Speaker 2:That's what the Goliath group are doing. The same thing Everybody's. They're eating all the fish on the wrecks. I know they have learned that when the boat pulls up, dinner's coming. I've gone to these wrecks out here on like the East coast especially. You know you get over the top of these wrecks. There's boats everywhere. Everybody's pulling fish up. Where are the fish going? You know, first of all, they're pulling them all out and I've been there. It's like you know it's actually there's some of these wrecks is where you see, like the YouTubers out there with like the big muscle guy that's trying to catch the Goliath group, or it's not the same spot. I've been to the spot.
Speaker 2:I've been hand-lined in form. It's fun because these Goliath group are smart and they're cunning and they, they want an easy meal because they're big, slow, lumbering fish that wants easy, opportune meals. And they will wait below your boat. Like you, can literally look over the gunnels and see these enormous shadowy figures looking up at you. It's scary. All they're doing is waiting on you to bring a fish up or, when you release them, you're exhausted fish that's struggling to get down. They're getting smoked by these Goliaths but, like you know, you go down there and observe them. I don't know snorkeling or something you know. A wild free swimming snook could probably go right past their face and they're not going to mess with it. It's like getting in the boats.
Speaker 3:Nick, if there was one video clip of fishing that I wish I'd had to verify this point in particular, it would be when we were out at nighttime and we were using the lights out on Cave Run and there was a musky and two feet away was a bass.
Speaker 1:Yup, yup, lined up right beside each other just chilling out you know, yeah, it's crazy. They will move on for a second. I know you and I had a little bit of conversation before the podcast. Throughout the last couple weeks we were trying to get this meeting hooked up. I know you had caught I think it was what seven fish over 50 pounds in the United States, freshwater fish over 50 pounds, and I think, yeah, how many over 100 was it?
Speaker 2:Three, three, three species.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I'd like to go through that list. I don't mind, I'm just curious. I don't know if you named them all I can remember, but I want to talk about that and just maybe some of the stories that go behind those. Sure man, that is a fascinating feat and I don't think a lot of people understand. I mean, that's several big fish. You know most people might catch one or two fish, maybe cat fishermen, and that's one specific species, you know, because you've done this with multiple species. So let's talk about that, if you don't mind.
Speaker 2:All right, I'm going to fumble over my thoughts because it's not something I rattle off often. I did send you the list. So, as far as 50 pounders, I try to go in like order of which they were caught. Okay, I'm about to say it had been grass carp, blue catfish, smallmouth buffalo, bigmouth buffalo, and I'm going to. I got to worry about saying the same fish twice. All right, so I'm going to go in like order of which they were caught blue catfish, bigmouth buffalo, smallmouth buffalo, alligator, gar. How many species did I say was over 50 pounds?
Speaker 2:Gulf sturgeon white sturgeon, that's your seven.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then the one, the three over 100 pounds, is alligator, gar, white sturgeon and Gulf sturgeon and I don't know, man, it's just like it's a game of opportunities and trying to do it, a lot of these species are like a fish that you catch by sitting on a chunk of bait. You know, you learn about where they're at and you give yourself opportunity to do it. Whether you segment off, I would say you know, you give me five days with almost any species in the country or the world, where all you have to do is sit on a spread of rods on chunk bait. Within five days, you know you should be able to catch that fish. It may not like, but in most cases, at least in freshwater where everything is more concentrated. But yeah, dude, I don't know, I've been very lucky. So I guess the first one that I got that was over that was a 62, 63 pound grass carp and that was a funny one. So do they?
Speaker 1:hit lures at all, or is it kind of like a accident? Well, they might.
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't want to say that they don't, I don't think so, but you know, you see those photos where people, you know, you see these pictures where people catch a grass carp and there's a crank bait hanging out of its mouth. I get a little suspicious. Or like a paddle fish with a crank bait hanging out of its mouth and I'm like you know, I mean I don't know. Yeah, weird things happen. No, I mean I caught mine on corn, like you do with any other fish. Now, I think it was the night before that I, at the time, caught it.
Speaker 2:What was my biggest freshwater fish? So this was 2010, I think, and so I caught like a 46 pound flathead catfish. I'm on top of the world. This is like my biggest freshwater fish ever. The next morning, I get up and go out to basically the same area in the lake to search for grass carp. This is Lake Moultrie, which has got gigantic grass carp, like astonishing size grass carp, and and so I fished for those and caught one. That was, I weighed it in a dip net, so it was like you know, it was like 65 pounds in a net, so I'm like subtracted a little bit of that out. So then it was like the next day that was an even bigger fish, and then later that year is when I did the alligator garthing. So I was like I was on a roll.
Speaker 1:But that's a fish that I want to catch, so bad as alligator gar.
Speaker 2:I like say this all the time to people Like, if you're an American angler, like if you're a person who just has an adventurous spirit, you have got to go fish for those things it will like affect, like your conscience and your soul and like any other fish Like. I don't mind, steve, I know you, like I'm the same way. I've always had a soft spot for like the prehistoric fish, like the survivors. Some people can't I think they can't compute that or quantify the amount of time that these fish have been on planet earth, so it's like they don't find the value. But if you can really sit and like look these fish in the eyes and like you touching them and holding them, and you're thinking about how far they've come, what they've come through, the odds that they have like overcome to be in front of you, it is, oh my gosh, it is a remarkable, remarkable fish and just experience. So like dude, and it's not hard.
Speaker 2:It's like a low hanging fruit species. They are not hard to catch. It's the hardest part of that is getting bait. That's the part that sucks. You go down there and you don't have a solid game plan to get bait.
Speaker 3:You can have a, you can have a real hard time, but man it was actually my second trip south to catch alligator guard that I was successful. The first time I went down to Mississippi, I read about the record that was pulled out. You know the ridiculously big one that was made 27 pounder. Yeah, yes, and I was like that's the water I need to be in. Yeah, I made the mistake, though, of going in April, and so we were down there and there were some guys that had.
Speaker 3:You've been to Mississippi, you know how the houses are. Some of them are right hanging hanging off the edge of. You know, over the over the river, people have their porches built out over all these rivers and and creeks and lakes and stuff. It's wonderful. I hope to retire to that, you know. Yeah, but I was talking to a guy and he's like well, last week we seen the alligator guard rolling through here, he's like, but this cold snaps got him push deep.
Speaker 3:So my first trip was a bust.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it dropped down to like 35 degrees one night.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know the water just got so chilly and so cold, and so we left there and I went all the way down to way down south near Biloxi, and you know I had heard that even in the colder parts of the year you could get down that way and you could find them, like in the brackish water, and fish there and tons of redfish and all kinds of awesome things that you know I can't even identify because you know I'm not in salt water enough to know what they are, but no alligator gar.
Speaker 3:Well, a couple of years ago, me and my best friend for my birthday, we took a trip to the Trinity and it was just amazing. I mean, it was July and it was 105 degrees out there and you know there's no shade anywhere. So we're out there in this aluminum boat, 105 degrees, but you know we were using cut carp. The guide was taking a carp and slicing it in half or thirds and throwing out big two, three pound baits, man. But yeah, oh my gosh, it took them no time at all to find those baits.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, I'm getting like PTSD. You describing that it's funny you mentioned that Like that is no lie. At least on a lot of sections of those rivers it's like you're in like essentially a gorge, at least if you go during the right time of year where the water level is low. You know the Trinity River, like the banks are like a muddy bluff because when that river gets up it's nasty, like it rips land away and it's just these muddy cliffs and so, like the brush, any overhanging brush is offset from the water, so it doesn't matter what angle the sun is at. You don't get shade. In some cases you get lucky and find a little shade. But you're right, dude, like you get out there it is not for the faint of heart, like you are at the mercy of, like the worst like Mother Nature can throw at you. But that's part of the allure for me, like that's part of the I don't know dude, like when I go fishing, like I, in a weird way I need that, like I can't just show up and show out and get fish. It's like there's something about like the rustic, just raw nature of that Texas, like landscape and chasing those fish Like I don't know dude, it just it does it for me Like I wish.
Speaker 2:When I was first trying to get out of Arkansas not to hit on Arkansas, but like I was in Northwest Arkansas most recently before moving to Florida and that's just it. I don't know, that place wasn't for me Like bass and smallmouth. I needed more, like the Ozarks are nice, but I had to get out of there and so I was job hunting heavy in Texas and in Florida. I'm like whichever one calls first is going to be the winner, but but, um man, I love Texas. I wish, I wish it was closer. Yeah, those alligator go. I could go on a whole tangent about that, but I don't want to eat up all our time.
Speaker 2:Cause dude, you're good Gee.
Speaker 3:I think part of the allure of chasing after rough fish instead of game fish is that you still kind of feel like a pioneer yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean 100%.
Speaker 3:You have to get out. You have to get out and face the elements and, you know, part of the fun for me is figuring these things out, because there's not, like you said earlier, there's not a whole lot of fishing advice, it a lot more of it's. You know it's coming on every day. But for a lot of these fish that I was tracking down, it was, instead of looking up fishing advice, I was reading biology books and trying to understand, you know, uh, native fishes of the Eastern United States. I was reading that and getting an idea of what these fish were eating. It's kind of like the first time I went sturgeon fishing I had seen a picture of one that somebody had posted and they're actually an endangered species here in Kentucky. They're only in, you know, certain waterways here and they're actually a few hours from me, but I was dead set that I was going to catch one of these things. So I read all the information that I could on them and you see the fishing advice from up, you know, up in like Canada or up in Michigan and Wisconsin, and they're using cut burbot, like there's no burbot in Kentucky. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So I'm going by what I'm reading in in these books that are based on the biology of the fish and then going out and having to figure out from that how to catch it, and it really does. I mean, as silly as it sounds, in this modern world, that's like the closest that you can get to pioneering, at least in the angling world. It's tons of fishermen out there, tons of people encountering these fish, but the target and individual fish, you have to know its habitat. Yeah, and like you said, you can kind of go out and throw a chunk bait and you'll catch something, but if you're really targeting something, a particular species, you need to be in its habitat. Yeah, and it's exciting. For me that's one of the biggest lures. It's one of the reasons why I'm not on a boat casting, you know $500 bait casters, because the majority of the time when I'm fishing I'm in the mud and in the weeds.
Speaker 3:Like I'm in a nice setup Like give me something nice.
Speaker 2:I'm the same way I feel a tax.
Speaker 1:No, I'm missing, but 100%, absolutely. I feel like I am trying to catch something that not a lot of the people are trying to catch and I enjoy that. My recent video I think I even sent you the link you know how many people I had message me. Like man, I'd love to catch one of those you know. Aren't those invasive? I thought those were invasive, shouldn't you kill?
Speaker 2:that. Oh, I know you just hate that and so it's the education thing.
Speaker 1:And then you know people asking me about you know where can I go to catch them? You know I want to catch one of those so bad and just seeing I bet I had 15, at least 15 people in the last two days message me, tell me that they would love that's a bucket list fish. Yeah, I'm like man. There's so many people that just don't do it. You know that. Don't go out here and pursue these fish that are really not thought of very well. They're looked over or thought you know bad about, just because of, maybe, what their dad told them or their grandfather told them or you know the so on and so forth. But yeah, definitely one of the things that intrigues me and pulls me that direction is the fact that not a lot of people fish for these other fish. Like Gar, I love going out and fishing for Gar. I can name two people out of all the anglers that I know that have purposely tried to fish for Gar and Steve's one up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a bizarre one too, it's like you know, I don't know there's that's the other part of it that hims me up. So why not? But you know, I love to tell people this like like scenario every time I discuss this with with folks, when you talk about these obscure fish or the oddball species when you take out. I love to say this because I feel like it's so true, but like if you go down to like the state aquarium right now, this is like a hypothetical situation and you get like a room full of kids that are on a tour coming through that don't know one fish from another, and they walk through an aquarium that's got a bass in it, a trout in it, a striped bass in it, a catfish in it, a bluegill, a crappie.
Speaker 2:Then all of a sudden there's a seven foot long alligator, gar or even a bowfin. The natural like wonder of, like the human instinct is to like gravitate towards that. So you know, that's kind of where I start saying those are the ones you got to plant the seed in, because it's so sad, like I guess, if there's a silver lining in the internet and you know a lot of the bad can come out of it, at least you can educate people, because prior to that, you know, you take a kid that gets interested in that. I've seen this at the aquariums. I never forget. I saw a kid. He walked in and he saw a bunch of long nose gar and he goes swordfish. He yelled swordfish and I was watching and I, like you know, I laugh.
Speaker 2:And then his dad oh no, I didn't care. I was like he was excited about it and then his dad or whoever, started talking about how this is nasty trash fish, gar. I'm like this is where it happens. You had an opportunity to capitalize on this kid's natural fascination in an animal and you blew it. Yeah, like you just screwed it up. So, man, I don't know, I do think that that's going away, but it is that's the craziest thing that our fish that have been here the longest or like the least known about what happened.
Speaker 3:Right, it's crazy being down in Florida. Man like you are in a wonder world for somebody that's in the fish biology or animal biology altogether. Forever Florida had one of the biggest ports for importing live animals from overseas. And then, you know, since the hurricanes, a lot of these animals have got out and established populations there and you know, florida is basically the only place in the world that you're going to go catch African sick lids, south American placo's, american bofin and snake heads in the same canal.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know how is that as a fisherman? Because as somebody who's interested in biology I see the problems with all these invasive species, but as an angler I'm also like wow, it's like a wonderland down there. You can catch everything.
Speaker 2:Well, that's all you can do, especially because this is South Florida we're talking about where most of this happens, and it's like everything south of Lake Okeechobee is just like progressively less natural. It's all water management systems, it's all designed for flood control, so it's not natural ecosystems anyway. It's all like developmental land and even in the country you aren't finding natural creeks and stuff. It's all like the pump stations, water control management systems, like everything's straight line canals. So the ecosystem has been destroyed anyway by people. It's not like it was years ago.
Speaker 2:So, first and foremost, there's that. It's not I mean, it's gone. You know what I mean. And it is a wonderland for fishermen. It's I don't know.
Speaker 2:Dude, you got to find the happy medium between one. You have to recognize it's too far gone. You cannot get rid of these other fish. It doesn't matter how much money and resources and whatever is poured into trying to eliminate something like a snakehead, they will never be gone. They will always be here. There's no way to eliminate those without eliminating everything else. So, if you can at least come to that conclusion like, if you can at least establish that, like everything else is, like, there's a level of acceptance, right, well, let's enjoy them because they're here, but you almost like you don't want to do that, while also coming off as like being like accepting, you know, promoting the proliferation of new fish.
Speaker 2:Now, I've seen this firsthand and I know people who do it. You got these young kids down here. Well, there's probably older people too. They're moving them. They're like taking them and moving them. Like I live on the West Coast of Florida where there's not really snakeheads, but I know these, these other West Coast kids are going over there, catching them and bringing them over and putting them in ponds and stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm like guys, we can't be stupid. But I don't know. You know you love to read about the Florida man and how stupid people in Florida are and you see the news stuff about the newest crazy like there's tegu's and there's, you know, there's water monitors and there's all these crazy things down here and people like only in Florida. Well, it's not only in Florida, it's just only in Florida that these goober's release the animal and it survives. People released stuff all over the country. It just they just die. The difference is you do it down here and they live forever. So it's like it's not that people in Florida are more stupid, it's just the ecosystem can keep some of them, but I don't know man, it's like I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't want to see new stuff Like like the latest one that's going around is the Arapaima in Florida.
Speaker 2:People like hell yeah, that's great. And I'm like I love the peacock bass and I love the snake heads and I love the clown knife fish and I will go chase them all the time. When I don't this is a personal thing, but like if arapaima are out here, I feel like that that's a different caliber of fish, like that is an experience like the pursuit of that species cannot be ruined in a farm pond in like urban or rural Florida. Like I'm not doing it, I don't care. Like they've got the bear of Monday ponds out here and To each their own.
Speaker 2:But I'm like I'm just, you know there's certain fish like you got to do correctly, like you got a right put in the money, go go the right place. But uh, you know you don't want to see that stuff happen. But it's like I don't know, it's kind of like it's too little, too late. Like Florida, like especially South Florida, it'll never come back. So you just have to enjoy it. It's just take advantage of it. It's, it's, it's neat, it's fun, it's cool and you just have to accept the way that it is so man I have a phobia.
Speaker 1:I have a phobia of Somebody turning an alligator loose up here. Of course, I don't know if it make it through the winter.
Speaker 3:At least here.
Speaker 2:Are you serious?
Speaker 3:about that. Yeah, they caught one in Harlan County a couple years ago, but they're not gonna make it and even if they did. Alligators aren't really a threat at all. I don't know if you I've seen some in pictures, but me and the kids were like in the water, like 20 feet from alligators.
Speaker 1:It'd be my look, I'll be the one to hop out of my kayak for a quick swim in the summer and get my leg bit off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're one of those things, that sort of like when you've been around them long enough, it's like seeing a bird and it's like see the turtle, it's like it's like no, it's nothing. I mean, you can't be. People have been, there's been a lot of attacks in the last couple years, but it's always the old lady walking her dog down by the retirement community pond. It's like they just don't. The real, true wild alligators are way out there. They want nothing to do with people and we get them down here that are like.
Speaker 2:I've seen it, like you know, on the Tamiami trail where I fish this, this one very famous roadside fishing spot. Down here the alligators know it's kind of like the Goliath group or thing. They know that fishermen are gonna bring them their food and if you're fishing they'll come to you. They'll just wait on you to catch something and then you just sort of have to let them get it, you have to let them take it. But I don't know, dude, I've, I've, I've grown up around alligators. I could send y'all some pictures that you know, I don't know, I don't. I think I'm past the statute of limitations here, but like I've got some history of Contact with alligators that you might find interesting. Maybe I could show you off to the side. But let's just say I searched for adrenaline, highs and unique ways as a youngster.
Speaker 3:No, I understand.
Speaker 1:Hey, david, let's, let's talk about your podcast real quick. We'll Chat it up about that and end it with you plugging your social media. I know we've been on here about an hour or so. I didn't want to keep you on too long, but I definitely won't talk about your podcast. I thoroughly enjoy it. I'm not one of those guys that's like listen to mine or no one else, I don't care, man, we're all in this together. Um, dude, love the podcast and let's talk about that why you started that podcast and just how everything's been going with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know man it. It kind of was spawned out of spontaneity. I've been a guest on several podcasts and, hated to say it, probably the first ones that I was on I like was probably that that horrible guest that we've all Maybe come across as, like you know, I was like clammed up and I was like treated it like a job interview. Yeah, like it was not myself. And then you know, I I don't listen to a lot of them, mostly because I just found that a lot of them are the same stuff. It's like the same people, or the same type of people. It's like, you know, joe blow, the captain, who's talk, given the inshore redfish and snook report down here, it's like you know, okay, that's a little interesting. Or it's like Billy Bob, the pro, best tournament circuit 2003 winner, like it. Or you know you probe, probe anglers, which I can listen to a little bit. But I need to hear Like somebody relatable. That's why I actually I love your podcast, I love the way that y'all talk. It's like these are real people, they're real like. These are like real dudes. It needs to be relatable. And then I want to draw like Inspiration out of it. I'm like, all right, I want to see somebody that I can kind of relate to that's doing something unique. I need to see like a path to these interesting things and I don't know dude. Like over the years, I've met so many like awesome anglers that have day jobs, that have, like you know, they're like weekend warriors, but they have a very unique Spin on how they fish and they're catching incredible things and I'm like how are they doing it? How are they budgeting it for it? Where? What's the planning process? Where's this coming from? Like, is this something I can DIY? And so, like I know so many people. I'm like I want to start talking to these folks and like putting them out there and like planting seeds in people's minds. That like you Can do something that transcends beyond Bass fishing at the local golf course and things like that. Like, and you don't have to break the bank to go chase some of these fish, you can do it through organic networking with real people, with cool people. Like the white sturgeon I just caught was with just some dude that I knew through another dude, through fishing. It was like organic, natural relationship building. Like y'all are guys that I could plan a trip to go fish with for muskye. I've never caught musky or for like lake sturgeon that's a bucket list fish, but it's like you know, I don't know, dude. So I know all these awesome people and I just wanted to talk to them. This is like and Then.
Speaker 2:So like I got like real spontaneous with it. I had no real game plan and I just immediately started buying stuff and it got to a point where I'd spent so much money I was like, well, I'm gonna look real dumb if I bail out on this now. Like no, turning back. Now I bought the laptop, I bought the camera, I got these like monthly subscriptions to like host all the stuff. And then I'm like, oh man, like now I have to do it. So I don't know, it's like I I see a lot of people that have tried it. You get to like you're at least in it, like you're in the groove now. But I can see where people kind of hit those Windows and like turn back and say I screw this, this is too much work.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll say this real quick, I'll interrupt you. So we recently took like a six or seven week break. That was 99% my fault, but I had. I will say this is kind of a little PSA, I guess.
Speaker 1:Man, mental health is so important. I have struggled on and off sometimes with with some depression and I tend to get really, really busy with my job and some things going on, and I had to take a break mentally. I had to step back. We're going on three years now been doing this podcast and man, I just I think next month actually three years, and it's it's first to start off you every two weeks or whatever. But man, I would get in a grind and it's not that I don't have content. I've got like three or four episodes recorded.
Speaker 1:It's fine the time to edit, finding that you almost experience burnout when you've done it so long and it's really hard to stay focused and stay In a groove. And you know, there's been times where I've took a month long break or I've took a three week break or like this Is the longest break off took since I, since I started. But man, I just had to reset and there's nothing wrong with that, you know, there's, there's absolutely nothing right, even with you. You may do this podcast a year and say, man, I just need need a little bit of a break. People got a.
Speaker 1:You know, understand, I've had people messaged me. Hey, man, you're alright, how's the podcast? You know, yeah, I'm just like listen, I'm human too. You know, I've got, I've got to have. You know, this is a lot of work when you work. I work almost 60 or around 60 hours a week, yeah, and you know, plus two kids, wife, hobbies, you know, trying to do all this stuff it's tough. You know, steve's been amazing help and Steve's Steve's a rock star, but man, it's just, it's a lot, you know, and so Apologize to my listeners. I'll just take a little second here and apologize my listeners because of a little bit of delay in it, but you know we're back in a groove of things and all that and but anyway, man, go ahead. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's totally I can. I can. I can definitely see those things looming. I'm only well I I knew from the get-goes like I'm gonna get myself real backlog before I even begin this. I think I recorded 10 episodes before I even released number one, so that gave me 10 weeks of time to kind of like get going and I've maintained a massive buffer, which makes me feel bad for my Guests because I'm like, but I let him know, I'm like, hey, listen, it might be three months before you hear your episode come out, but I need that like. So at least it's given me time to take these long breaks. I'm probably gonna take all of September off. I'll be too busy that month, yeah, but I'm like you know. But, yeah, I, I don't. I'm like my aim is not to gain anything from it.
Speaker 2:It's been really cool way to like connect with people and almost every guest that I've had come on like when we go off air, it's like you I mean you you start talking about trying to put a game plan together to like meet up and fish with each other. So it's like it's it's real Conversations and like the world needs more of that. But I've kind of told myself I was like I will commit and I can draw a hard line and say like I'm gonna commit to doing this for like a year and then now I'll analyze where I met from there and see where we're going. But I mean, you know, I'm the same way dude. I got a full-time job, I've got two kids. I need to be present. I'm not present right now. Like during the school year when I got to be in there to do homework like it's hard you saw how hard it was to even get me on this one. Stuff kept happening.
Speaker 1:I felt terrible.
Speaker 2:I'm that guy now.
Speaker 1:I've got a few people.
Speaker 2:I'm still chasing for like months after first contact. But, um, I Don't know, dude, I don't know. I honestly don't know what made me get into it. Oddly, what's funny is the people that know me. I'm very introspective. I do not like being in crowds of people. You cannot put me in front of groups of people to like interact. I mean groups of fishermen maybe, but I am like not. So it's a weird for me to be talking this much, because that is not me it's.
Speaker 2:But in in my line of work, I've always been in leadership positions, positions of authority. But if, given Time to like, I don't know if, given the freedom, I'm gonna like gravitate away from that. I want to be to myself. Sometimes my wife is like, oh hey, my friend Susie, her husband, loves fishing and I'm like I don't want to meet him, I don't want nothing to do it, I know.
Speaker 2:But uh, I don't know it's, maybe it's a character flaw, but I'm very much to myself, so sort of it's sort of weird. It's Brought me out of my shell, maybe a little bit. So maybe it's good for me to be doing it. But uh, oh, anyway, I don't know, I spend all my day in, contained inside of a process in, in a like you know I'm in manufacturing and somebody that's wild natured and free spirited like me, like at my core level you talk about mental health and stuff will do it. I Can't do it like if I can't get away to fish or I can't talk to somebody that is fishing it, it it starts messing with me, like if I get entrapped and I'm not able to get out there. I got problems with it. So it's a good outlet for me.
Speaker 3:So Sometimes In a big retail store Uh, you probably guess which one, but it's the one that's always you know, popping up on youtube videos like you can't believe what just happened in this store and let me tell you.
Speaker 3:Those videos are, you know, an accurate depiction of what actually goes on in these stores. So I'm around, you know, yeah, 300 workers a day, and then I don't know, 5000 Customers a day, and that's why, as soon as I'm off work, if I have a day off if you follow me on facebook, you know if I'm off I'm gone. I'm out somewhere, miles away from people, in a holler and a swamp, like the most dismal places that anyone else can imagine. I am, I am jumping right in that situation and Aimee, no way from other people for the most part, and Absolutely having a ball. Like you know, there's a few things in life that make me happier than wandering around a swamp by myself or just with the kids and and, uh, not running across somebody and not listening to these problems. Like I need that impression time.
Speaker 1:No, no, so true, you know, I had been fishing like four times this year and, uh, I mean that's right, that's like man I got, I got a fish more. But but, yeah, those of you listening, um, please check out the podcast Foundless pursuit, please, please, please, subscribe, check out his podcast. Great content, as he said. You know, it's man, it's real talk, you know, and there's there's a lot of podcasts out there, there's a lot of fishing podcasts out there. But I, you, your podcast is definitely one of my favorites, and I don't say that, lily, I don't say that just because you're on my show. I truly do Enjoy it and I'm looking forward to uh Seeing how it goes. Man, let's plug your social media and all that, uh, the podcast again where they can listen, and all that, as, uh, you know, before we end this thing, let's, let's do all that, dave.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, as far as like Social media and all that stuff, I I keep everything pretty much under the same name. So, on, like instagram, it's at boundless pursuit, all one word. And obviously instagram is nothing but a photo album. So if you like pictures, there's pictures there. But I really like and enjoy my website a little bit more because it's got photos, it's got some video, it's got articles. Some of its opinion pieces, some of it's maybe educational to you. It also has the podcast. So that's probably the best place to go if you want to see everything that I do because it's all together and that's wwwboundless hyphen pursuitcom, because boundless pursuitcom costs too much money and if I put a hyphen in there, like cut down on a lot on the cost, um, so you'll see up in the tabs like um, blog, podcast, photos. So it's that that has everything but the podcast. Very easy to find. A simple google search boundless pursuit podcast, spotify, apple podcast, all of those things. I think it's pretty easy to find, um, so hopefully people will find a topic that's interesting.
Speaker 2:I try to keep it Diamond dynamic. I have guys that fish for bass. I have guys that are fishing in Africa and in Europe and in central america and in south america, and I try to keep it pretty diverse. So I'll hopefully I can keep it as diverse as I can for as long as I can. But yeah, man, I try to stay as an open book as well. I try to stay very responsive. If people send me messages, um I'm I'm prompt to respond. So people have questions or they got anything, I'll typically get back to you with a very detailed answer in a very timely fashion. I might not get on your podcast on a very timely fashion, but I'll answer you the best that I can. So you're good brother.
Speaker 1:Oh man, david graham, it's been a blast man Been, an absolute, absolute blast. Thank you for being on the show, thank you for coming out and may just Learn a little bit about you and and why you are who you are. Uh, those of you listening, please try to understand, uh, what many call rough fish and trash fish before you call them that. Uh, you know research, obviously, david's got a bunch of articles on it, um, which I am intrigued to read, by the way. So, um, I have not done that yet, so forgive me, I'm a terrible friend, but um, yeah, man, appreciate you coming on the show. Steve, thank you as well, um, and I guess, for those of you listening, love you, neighbor, go catch the fish.